well, understand that the tongues themselves DID NOT cause the crowds to turn to God. The tongue-speaking did turn the crowd to God, but it was together with Peter's speech that salvation was chosen by them. Besides, there is no evidence in the Bible for a "spiritual tongue". Paul's reference to the "tongue of angels" in 1 Corinthians was a hyperbolic reference to the impossible. Neither is there evidence for latter tongues or latter gifts. If you go check out 1 Cor 14, all gifts aren't meant for self-edification at all (although they do bring about that simply coz of their nature). They're given solely to build up the Body.

good points there jonny.
However, I disagree that it doesn't matter. Hypothetically, if I choose to worship the Lord through voodoo rituals and bloodletting, say because I was deluded when I was young, does that mean that it's completely alright because I am worshipping with sincerity and love from the heart?
Still you're absolutely right jonny, that we should not let the physical aspects and these actions take precedence over keeping the Lord in mind and spirit unlike the Pharisees who took pride in their activities.

And anyway I kind of wonder why the tongues in 1 Corinthians are usually referred to as the same as the Pentecost thingy. Considering that during the Pentecost, the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke in tongues that foreigners understood i.e. foreign languages. Whereas in 1 Corinthians, it is written "Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.", and "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself." Kind of makes it different huh? I haven't got anything against tongues in particular, but I still wonder about it being evidence of the second baptism of the Holy Spirit and how it seems to be the sign of receiving the Holy Spirit when it is written that "Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church." You see jonny, at least for me, I think there's an overemphasis on it in many churches. And don't you think that focus on one particular aspect (other than God of course) always is very dangerous?

The Lord has given us many gifts, but just as we do not over-eat, or turn rest into sloth, or treat pastors as idols (thereby elevating them in our minds to the positions of deities), well... you kind of get my drift right? Because I don't quite know how to say it.

Yep that's about all I have to say this fine Friday morning.

date and time cherie, you must tell us when.

All those opposed to the death penalty, hear my question.
If you captured this drug trafficker with 20kg of heroin (CONFIRM DIE), would you turn him over to the authorities, knowing full well he is going to hang? Turn him over to die?

Your'e asking me what to do for Bio"S" ?!? When I drowning up to miles above my head with all those infernal essays ( especially those by Mr Chia Po-lung) and nothing, absolutely nothing is even diffusing into my head along its concentration gradient? Maybe you should ask all the geniuses in your class (I remember there are quite a few in Bio, aye) and that may help more. Really if you read those things it is not that you don't know them, it's whether you could regurgitate them out within 50 minutes per essay. So sleep well and pray very hard. Can't think of anything else that could be done really.

Tongues...as far as I remember this issue has been dragging on for ages. More than a year in fact. But that does not make it any less relevant. General agreement with Joses' pts in his latest entry but I can understand why Ethel and CHerie feel so uptight about it...

And Ethel if you don't want to go for the concert it's really okay.

yep, I can't persuade you otherwise. Only His Word can truly change a heart, I've learnt.

But your argument from personal experience is invalid. Other religions also have ecstatic utterances, does that validate their teachings? Check out Deuteronomy 13:1-4.
I DO BELIEVE tongue-speaking can and does occur. The problem is the way it's practised in many churches today . Like I've said, I know in some places where young kids have classes for tongue-speaking! That is absolutely preposterous. Some people also believe that tongue-speaking requires practise after it has been granted; this I also refute for such a sign-gift is dependant only on God's sovereign will. Contrast this with the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5, which can be cultivated because of their intrinsic nature of being part of God's Image.

FQ, HELP!!!! WHAT AM I GONNA DO FOR BIO S !??!!

This is not an argument about rites and rituals; I've come to realise. In many respects it counts as a doctrinal dispute. Why would some Christians insist tongues have passed away while others claim they have the gift?

Ethel, I remember how you just wished these arguments could dissolve and go away. But they do exist and can't be ignored; the apostles in Acts 6 took time out to resolve even a mundane dispute about food distribution.

It's interesting how you even term it a "movement". That itself polarises the Body of Christ, no? Just a thought.

Time for my position. Tongues, I believe, is a gift that God still bestows on some of His people. But as in 1 Cor 12:7, it, as any spiritual gift, is meant for the "common good". Indeed, all of the various gifts do bring about personal edification of the individual, they are not the ultimate sole purpose.

Similarly, the gift of tongues has to benefit the common good, ie the church. In 1 Cor 14, Paul clearly shows that this can only occur if interpretation follows together with a tongue, that it may become prophecy and benefit all. He sought not to discourage tongues, but urged the Corinthians to pray that they might interpret what they said.

In all my experiences, I have not seen one instance where interpretation followed tongue-speaking.

I have heard of churches actually teaching one how to speak in tongues. This I strongly rebuke. Tongue-speaking is a highly circumstantial and temporal gift; where in Acts do we find the Apostles becoming linguists after that fateful Pentecost?

Ok, that's lotsa food for thought tonight.

While looking through the stuff that Joses posted, I kind of came upon this article.
I found this article listing reasons for a person who left the charismatic movement. It just happened to be this way for this person. Food for thought.

another interesting (and potentially controversial) article. Might wanna read the last few paras, they told me something that I, as one born and bred in church, knew little about.

My opinion? I would side with the author on the issue.

check this out, cherie. Finally a settlement of those "the OT don't apply today" arguments.

man it feels darn good for all your As to be brought to a closure. Spent the whole of Friday afternoon playing PS2 at my friend's place till my head throbbed and thumb was sore.

oops, you guys still got physics? man....

Argh and I forgot to tell you pple about smthg else...I have this former classmate who is soloing with the SSO on the violin during the Valentine's Day weekend...Tang Tee Khoon, have you heard of her? She's really really really good, and I've just found out that the concert is on sat night (15th), so all the poor souls who will be at Tekong should be able to go. Any takers?

Yep I agree with respect to that. However some of the discussions haven't exactly been very friendly sometimes. As I had written quite a long time ago sometimes it sounds as though we can't wait to put an end to each other's lives...though there are some things that we will never know I guess it is useful to discuss them anyway...at least then we could arrive at a conclusion somewhat. Even agreeing to disagree is better than thinking that my view ( or other peoples' views) are the only ones in the world.

Btw I crashed into a tree yesterday. As in crashed with a sound loud enough for the other 5 pple with me to hear the impact. I still feel a little funny now...though it did not hurt then when it happened. Anyway the Busker's festival was quite good...though the audience was quite disappointing, we were the only people cheering for the performers or something. Just because they are street performers does not mean they do not need to be appreciated, especially in this case where they were not even busking for themselves but for charity. So where does this lead me? Maybe all of you would want to attend Tapestry after the "A"s this year at orchard...Cherie's band is performing, apart from lots of other shows.

besides, we gotta speak the truth in love (1 Corithians 10, I think). The question here is what issues are critical to our faith or not. Like Harry Potter and his hype. Like the practise of tongues today.

Last Sunday we talked about conflict in the Body of Christ in church. If ya check out Deuteronomy 29:29, some things we will never know, so better avoid argument. One such issue is why God allowed incestuous marriage among Adam's offspring but explicitly stated in Exodus that such marriages are forbidden.

Others are explicitly stated in the Word, and we've got no excuse for ignoring them.

I read a commentary about 1 Corinthians the other day. The slogan "everything is permissible" was actually a godless pagan slogan popular in Corinth. Paul sarcastically tore it to pieces in his writing. To parade it around as a basis for freedom in our living is a misapplication.

Now, what did that have to do with my point.....

why are they called nosegays?? just call em bouquets....

man, ONE MORE DAY TO SELECTIVE FREEDOM

i guess... but it seems like most of our discussions end unhappily somehow.
i think it mostly started from the ethel-joses thing.
and a quest is like a search, a pursuit of something. so i suppose a never ending quest is good if your aim is to acquire knowledge, new means of thinking, and stuff like that, because it's neverending. when nothing comes out of it but unhappiness it's a waste of time isn't it?
i never said anything about anyone in particular looking like a goat or being fat.
you read stuff into what i say. hahaha... isn't that the best thing about being abstruse?
people say stuff you didn't think about.
like jialin says she looks like a goat which i actually didn't think about. but it was just something i felt like saying and voila, we learn something new.

no that wasn't particularly directed at you jialin.

okay then. that's pretty true, we don't know what what we would do unless we were in that situation, and let us pray that we aren't right? and heck, everyone should be given a right to choose whether they want to die or not.

i think brutal honesty is a good thing. refreshing at least. and it kind of saves you a lot of trouble. oh sure, people might be hurt by what you say but then again, it's a harsh world, and the truth always enlightens. you know, after a while you just don't feel like caring about using euphemisms or whatnot because it's all so complicated and it's best to be simple and say what you feel.
so i think all these discussions is a waste of time. and if there isn't going to be a satisfactory conclusion why bother then. it's not like we haven't heard most points of view on the whole euthanasia issue which is pretty much the same really.
yes you are fat.
yes i enjoy arguments. i enjoy snippish remarks. go ahead. make some other comment that i can proceed from to remark on your extended goat ancestry. ever notice how you usually say something that makes it soooo tempting to tease you. clara too... even though she doesn't understand what i say whereas fq is going sputter sputter never mind if you knew you would hit him.
i have funny dreams that in some way reflect reality. subconscious mind? fascinating stuff this.

yay busking sounds fun. yay pet walkathon sounds interesting too (even though i won't be around then anyway) anyone other than jonathan going for the singapore marathon thingy? should i go? sounds like fun. what say we all go as well eh? people who disagree, see above remark on large quantities of adipose tissue.

curious, would you be pleased to receive a nosegay?

reminder: The Kumars at No. 42 tomorrow night on Central at 10pm! Must watch!

information overload. i thot I was the only one who could gallivant after the 22nd (to %^$&# with the S-papers =). darn you physics slackers.

I throw my lot in
(kiss) The one

Wasn't he the one
Whose pockets jangled
With thirty silver pieces?

Aint he one of those young men
Ambling behind that Nazarene who
Asked us to take the straight and narrow?

He is the one and
His hands still unwashed
sauce and bread smeared on
his fingers.

Stained now with the blood of the Nazarene
that hung on the cross
as he now hangs on the tree

Maybe the lashings
the spitting
the sweat stinging raw flesh
the rust encrusted bone embedded nails
Sum of these was less
That that lone, dry lipped
Kiss.

how about doing weights are kallang? hiaks.

Why don't we get another design for this blog?

Why must we use a template that is SOOOOO common and SOOOO overused?

Can someone design something?

It's okay, I understand that if you want anything done you'll have to do it yourself. I'll think of something when I'm feeling bored.

Yeah sure.
The more the merrier eh? Ask someone who knows I guess.

Chemistry paper didn't seem so bad really. Hey Clara, how about the description of "abysmal" or "non-existent"?

Bad use of "apathetic" there Ethel. You should have used "pathetic" to describe your artistic flair instead. Apathetic is indifferent. Pathetic is pitiful.

I kind of think that God had planned greater things. I know that the Bible mentions that God had hardened the Pharoah's heart. How would it have been if the Jews had just been set free? Do they see the glory of God or do they think the Pharoah is just being merciful? As it is, everyone sees the power of God compared to the useless man-made idols and how all the wizardry of the pharoah's magicians just could not reproduce the miracles. And they can see how they can trust in God's strength which can easily defeat the Pharoah's army and create a path through a massive water body.

On the Judas Iscariot issue. How about looking at it that since Judas Iscariot would do it, it was prophesised and therefore fulfilled? How about God knew that the devil would nudge Judas towards this end and it was foreseen?
I have mentioned this, that I think that even after betraying Jesus, it wasn't automatically a dead end. How about this. The devil first says "do it. do it!" but once you do it he goes "oh-oh *wags finger* you did it you bad person God hates you now you are a BAD BAD person why don't you go kill yourself now" and he (Judas) did! And I don't think he had to. Because the Book didn't say "God made him feel guilty enough to commit suicide" So he could still be saved likely if he had repented. Considering that Jesus prayed for his persecutors, for they know not what they do, even if he had been overcome with remorse he chose the way out. You get me?

(I've said this in person before)
You would fall unconscious due to CO poisoning and likely die of smoke inhalation before you burnt (ouch).
Even in the last moments, is it impossible to comfort others? Is it impossible to try to make your last moments as meaningful as possible? Call back or something? Instead of hastening its end? Doesn't this bring up the euthanasia issue? You KNOW you're going to die your cancer has metastasied and started all kinds of malignant tumours in strange places and cancer cells are spreading via your blood and lymphatic systems. Same thing eh? I think so too.

And SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP.

Well I once wrote an essay on this...if you really approach this question from the point of a social thing then I can say that the perception of God has evolved with the needs of the people, though this might not be right, neither is it encouraged even as there is this danger that believing in God and going to church, etc, is just an oppurtunity for us to feel all warm and fuzzy inside. On the other hand, if you approach this from the spiritual angle, you have to realise that God has to be a just God at the same time as a loving God, and in the past before Jesus came along and died for our sins He had to punish us for what we did, cause we did sin. it was only through following what He said that there was a possibility of being saved...like Abraham and Noah, etc, even though Jesus wasn't there yet what they did was pleasing to God's eye cause they did what He asked them to. Then Jesus came along and died for us...that we are spared from the punishment for our sins, as He has borne all the sins for us. So really it is not that God has changed, it's just that other aspects of Him are clearer now that He does not punish with thunder and lightning all the time (sorry, figure of speech).

Joses stop flattering yourself with your love guru talk. In my opinion as compared to the guys in my class (whose tendencies are suspect) you have a long way to go. Ha. And Jonathan you can dance? You?! We'll watch on prom and then we'll laugh so hard we'll roll on the floor.

Sorry my brain feels roasted after the bout of fever on Thurs and Fri...felt horrible before and after the Bio paper (but thank God not during) Let's see...9 down, 10 more (including S papers) to go!

for ya physics revision. Or a outlandish practical question. haha

dude. i am the love guru ... ?!?!

sorry, my humour falls flat on me. BTW, the cartoon guide to genetics had the answer abt what restriction enzymes were good for in bacteria. The books I read. =)

haha, jialin, I also jumped into a cup of Mr. Softee after Bio Paper 2. Jonny just sat next to me griping about the army while I swam to the bottom. haha.

my classmate left me with these words. "ahhh. sex."

which is kinda true, considering all I've gotta study is reproduction and growth.

darn the GP dept. My success has backfired; every *&*^(%#$#@ person has parroted my "city living" essay. darn.

haha, on the bright side, TWO OF MY A LEVELS ARE DOWN!!! No more integration for the rest of my life!

Ok. its about 240 minutes left to Bio Paper 2. Back to "the cartoon guide to genetics".

vanity is like this chinese high guy who for 5 stops on the way to school on 74 where i was sitting with my friend from polytechnic who just stood at the exit and looked at his own reflection, every so frequently adjusting his carefully coiffed hair such that every strand was in place. and there were so many empty places. at least we can't accuse him of being lazy.

i just thought of something.
how would fig leaves stay on anyway? glue? on those areas?

i don't understand. 10 sheets of paper not enough meh? what he do... for the first maths question he write on one SHEET of paper is it? (5 lines?)

Interesting note. Ever heard Kiss Kiss?
Doh! I wondered why the song sounded so familiar.
Because it's a cover of Stella Soleil's song of the same name, same lyrics and same music.
It doesn't even sound different!
Stupid Holly Valance, another one of those that shake their booty instead of making music to get famous.

I didn't like Maths C Paper 2.

That's nice to know.
It would have been nice if I had known beforehand though.
Yes we should. And even though we can't, not completely anyway, it shouldn't stop us from trying right? Except that all too often we don't try very hard.

Gee... something just occurred to me.

I still haven't gotten the prom tickets.
Why I suddenly thought about it while I'm doing maths?
Because my junior was curious and asked me, and I wanted to check. Except I have nothing to check with.

Where is my ticket?!

I love maths, maths is fun, everyone loves maths, maths is easy, a levels is chickenfeet, i get kicks out of doing maths. i love maths, maths is fun, everyone loves maths, maths is easy, a levels is chickenfeet, i get kicks out of doing maths. i love maths, maths is fun, everyone loves maths, maths is easy, a levels is chickenfeet, i get kicks out of doing maths.
My mantra for psyching myself up. Feel free to substitute maths with any subject titles.

*must... resist... must not post on non-mundane things*

I think that everyone has preconceptions, even though they may be wrong. And you have to admit that things like rock bands are associated with many unsavoury things like sex, drugs etc. Not that I don't like rock music myself, and that there are many different bands and stuff that aren't as such. Still, think classical music. I still have not given my stand on this topic yet, and I don't think I will.

Well, let's say you have violent tattooed earringed guy who punches people up because he has anger management issues. Including in church. 1 new believer thinks: look at this dude, he's so badass but he wants to know Jesus and reform! 2nd new believer thinks: why does he still do these things without seeming to have remorse? What do you think? I have expressed no stand here either. It's up to you!

I don't like General Paper. I haven't practiced for far too long.

thanks. 3 people gave me their autographs to spill my ink on after I've exerted my right forearm continously for 3 hrs in Econs.
But i relish the honour. More verse to vociferate. Looks like my bardic tendencies are coming back. haha

In a fit of irritation and unhappiness, I was about to channel my displeasure (in general) in a snappy reply.
But I didn't.
Yay.

I deplore everyone to think before you speak.
I might have posted something that I would regret later. Too late, when people have read it.

Approx. 32 hours to A Levels.
Woopeedoo!

it is Saturday. That means less than 48 hours to Maths C P1.
For those of you still reading this, check this out.

Hey, Jialin! too bad you joined in too late. We've have some interesting (and rather heated haha) discussions.
pierced tongue. hmmmm. would i kiss such a girl?

Haha.
I start to feel that our arguments never get anywhere.
So henceforth I shall abstain from posting anything other than mundane things.

Go A levels!

I also didn't mention gluttony and various other things. By not mentioning every single one is my argument automatically invalid?
Yeah that is pretty much actually. Have you seen Michael Jackson? *shudder*

how about-
Leviticus 19:28 : "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord."
Deuteronomy 14:1: "You are the sons of the LORD your God: you shall not cut yourselves, or make any baldness on your foreheads for the dead."
?

i tire of this.

(correct me if I am wrong) Earrings on males is a sign of slavery, can't remember exactly in the Bible it appears, but I am quite sure it is there.

okay, so we live in the era of naked christina aguileras with one hand and a guitar convering bits. so I suppose that means that it's OKAY, that since it's so bad little sins don't matter? I ask you, is it necessary to have piercings and have earrings?
Are you not harming/marring your own body for the sake of vanity?
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God You are not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body."
I ask you next. Is self-injury/mutilation an acceptable practice?
So how is cutting/piercing yourself for vanity different from cutting/piercing yourself to replace emotional pain with physical pain?
Does he set a good example by wearing a ear stud/earring?
And even if it's a common thing particularly for women to have ear piercings. And now even men, does that mean it's acceptable?
Homosexuality is becoming an acceptable thing in the view of the world. I guess it's acceptable too right? And I guess that wrath is not one of the deadly sins because it's common too?

My two cents worth.

and anyway, a earring on a youth is wrong IF the parents tell him to take it off but he don't.

black stockings. i like. =)

My church council elections are next week. My uncle questions the nomination of one of the candidates. He has a ear stud in his left earlobe. My uncle admits it reflects nuts about his spiritual life, but he says it can be a stumbling block to others. Youths may argue, "If Deacon XXY has a earring, why can't I get one?" despite their parents' objections.

My response? "That's why it's an election! Vote for who you feel merits it based on criteria in 1 Tim 3."

Sadly, I can't vote(yet!). But I may be asked to help count the votes...arrrgh.

hmmm.... my fault then.... could be the exam stress haha... Well, as far as intentions go, I only seek Biblically based talk. When I consider what could have been posted here, I'd take tough discussions over frivolous chatter. But these are not foolish arguments, simply coz they weed out false teachings.

Forgive me again if I appear too contentious, (gosh how long?), but the reason why we take to these threads of discussion with a queasy disposition is because we already assume all involved to be part of Christ's body. (Whoa, that's a hyperbolic ball from Joses...) I refer back to Paul's exhortation to "test the spirits". I guess one way to uncover "false teachings" is to see if they contradict Scripture. That should be easy enough, but the problem lies in today's relativistic, pluralist society. All views are accepted, all opinions are justified. This leaves Scripture open to interpretation when it should not be so. The Fall of Man is now an allegory, Noah's ark too.

This is part of the war; yes, we may lose a few campaigns, but victory is already in God's hands. Is that reason to stop warring? The devil keeps on attacking despite his ultimate defeat.

I must admit I take a pretty tough stance. Unity in Christ's body cannot come about if we allow false teachers to infiltrate and contaminate. It is my desire to see true unity in doctrine(truth) and love(spirit), that Jesus' prophecy in John 4 may be fulfilled. That is my ultimate aim, instead of just making everyone feel warm and fuzzy.

Trust me, I'm not the only one "slinging mud". My uncle (who's now attends church irregularly) keeps trying to show me how much my church has left the fundamental position to admit liberal preachers. But he himself admits that he won't be leaving the church coz of the strong ties with pple he's cultivated over the years. THAT basis can serve as a platform for reconcilation and repentance.

Maybe what I will be writing here online is a little out of point, but just wanted to say something about what has been going on in this blog for the past few days at least. It is really with ambivalence that I read the entries on the blog...on one hand I am happy that there have been discussions about the issues that people toss up here, for it shows that we are not just blind believers that take things at face value, but on the other hand I am shocked, even disappointed with the manner by which some of these discussions have been done. It really sounds as though we are trying to kill each other...how can we be united in the body of Christ if we are already quibbling over these details? Purists may be of the opinion that these small details make a whale of a difference to the fundamental belief that we have, but we have to make sure that we do not detract from the ultimate aim of these discussions in the process, which is to enrich and to polish each other, that through them we will shine for all the world. Isn't that what Student Venture and Campus Crusade were about in the first place? In all instances it was to be non-denominational, crossing whatever boundaries existent. There is no point winning small victories (like in this case winning an argument) if we end up losing the war, which for us will be fought in Heaven (I know we will end up winning, but I hope the point is made). I know that we do not mean to hurt each other with our words ( if you think about it language is terribly limiting to what we mean sometimes) but watch it, okay?

Btw thanks for telling me how to change the nick and profile!

Apostle can mean one of the group of 12 that was with Jesus (I mean including after Judas died and was replaced).
But its meaning (and we're not in the classical age now) also means a leader of the first Christian mission to a country/region. It's typically used to describe a prominent Christian missionary who converts a people. (not a person, a people)

Either way, I don't see how you just appoint someone an apostle in recognition of his ministry and spreading the gospel. If he was designated the leader of a successful missionary group to say... pagan tribes in Africa. Aye, I can understand that he is an apostle.

Aye, Ethel, you should have left it at 'when you do not know the whole issue from all aspects.' Because Joses has a point. So, Ethel, you are surely not saying that experience is one of the most important things we should trust in right?

i don't have anything against Ps Khong. Sometimes, words on a webpage seem so emotionless, no? I mean no impunity.

The thing is, apostles had the privilige of authority in their words (that's why they could write most of the New Testament). The words they spoke were the irrefutable Words of God. Today, as evidenced by Revelation 22:18-21, all that is recorded in the Bible is final. By induction, apostles (in the sense of Paul, Barnabus and the Twelve) cannot exist today. Like I said, the classical definition of "apostle" is one who walked, talked and tarried with Jesus Christ in the flesh. Again, no one can claim that today for Jesus is in heaven now. Thirdly, in Acts 1, only the apostles themselves could appoint another apostle to replace Judas.

Ethel, by your definition of "apostle", many would qualify! It clearly doesn't add up to claim that apostles can be appointed by us today. I reiterate my stand: Yes, there is an issue to be grappled with, but I shall not let anyone engulf his entire pilgrimage in trying to bring down one man...

I tell you this, Ps Khong is quite a convincing actor!~ That's my very first impression of him... haha

Do not judge when you have not interacted and experienced it for youself.
So, again, by induction, I can't say that drugs, sex and pornography are horrible, unless I've actually tried it myself?

goto TEAM
then
goto "ang feng qian"
then
goto "edit my profile" on upper right corner
then
edit.

It is true that rites are in the end, just rites. But we must remember that what we do is still under the scrutiny of others. For example, if we go into a mosque now and follow whatever they do (I'm sorry, no hard feelings here for people of other religions, just trying to illustrate a point), and say that rites are just rites, then we are missing the point, for what we do is seen by others, and for that religion action may mean belief. Then what will others say? Yep so be careful for not all things may be that straightforward yah?

Btw I've got conditional acceptance to King's College London...AAB...better than nothing I suppose...got to wait till January for the Cambridge one...and Joses you still haven't told me how to change my name in this thingy!

Well, Ethel, thank goodness you've never gone crazy over any sorta pop star or idol. But I tell you this. The adoration one has for a human rock star is vastly different from the kind that one has for a Father God. The point is, we don't worship God coz it makes us "feel good". We worship because He deserves it.

? since when did I say we must be concerned about differences??

i would agree with the bulk of your sentiments, ethel. Firstly, Hebrews 6 refers to "repentance from useless rituals". Paul implies that, while some rites are ultimately useless (eg bowing to idols, circumcision), there are those that are useful and important. Like the communion and baptism.

So ethel, to further illuminate your point, we should not be concerned about differences in the way certain rites are performed in different churches. You words give one the impression that rites don't matter(which is, of course, not your point, right?)

But your comparison of God with a rock star is INVALID! I used to fall into that trap, calling Jesus "the greatest rock star". God isn't someone who "performs" for us on the heavenly stage and simply "makes us feel good". He doesn't strut and preen for our pleasure! This full-time YFC worker I know even went as far to term the attitudes that some of today's worshippers have as "spiritual masturbation". All some people want to get is a "spiritual high" on Sunday mornings, a dose of feel-good music and dancing that can't go wrong (c'mon, it's in a church, right?)

Do we enter into the sanctuary of God to have a good time only? Or to truly seek the Saviour of our souls, that we may simply worship, no more no less?

What type of artist are you?
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tasty. i like.